MLP Daytona – Live Random Thoughts
We’re going to do our best to keep up with the action all weekend. Hopefully the MLP website is improved but, if not, you can turn to us for some random thoughts of commentary on all the happenings around Daytona. If you want to get a flavor for what you should look out for this weekend, take a peek at our top Challenger Storylines and Premier Storylines.
There are also a number of rules changes being implemented with respect to challenges, line calls, player conduct and tiebreakers. We posted a breakdown of the changes on Wednesday that you can read when you inevitably get confused watching this weekend.
Sunday. March 26th – Premier Semis and Finals
4:50 pm EST – Seattle def. California (3-1) – Seattle just a little too much for BLQK. Ben has 2 titles in 3 tries at MLP. Great run from California and it was really nice seeing Frazier have such a good run as it never has made sense that he struggles as much as he has at MLP. Meghan Dizon played well in women’s and Etta Wright has proven she can hang at that top level. It is a little much to give Dizon MVP, but then again Lee Whitwell has won two MVPs. Neither of these teams were big energy teams and they found themselves in a final together, which is noteworthy.
1:10 pm EST – California def. New Jersey (3-1) – The entire California team is just playing really well. Their ability to put Staksrud with Koop makes their team unique with that 1(a) and 1(b) mixed team as Maggie Brascia has been a big boost for their doubles prowess. The greatest women’s match in MLP history probably went their way, 25-23, and Maggie was able to get her mixed match with Dylan against Hayden/Anna Leigh. Federico has been getting really good mixed wins so it is no surprise he can win with Koop. For the 5’s, the Anna Leigh taking a ton of court situation has looked just a little awkward in women’s and mixed. Jansen never plays that setup role and Patriquin/AL haven’t formed a mixed team that is a #1 duo. It is tough for the 5’s to win if AL loses both her matches. Ritchie Tuazon has another team going to the finals.
11:00 am EST – Seattle def. Los Angeles (3-0) – The magic wasn’t quite there this weekend for the Mad Drops. Hunter Johnson played admirably but he lost both his matches against the Pioneers, and the women also couldn’t get it done against Wright/Dizon. Seattle is off to the finals after their one hiccup against California in the group stage. Seattle is scary if they get just one of those matches from Dizon because Ben has only lost one game across two events so far. It’ll be California or the 5’s, and the people may want to see that AL vs. Ben matchup we thought we might see after the draft.
Saturday, March 25th – Premier Group Stage and Playoffs
4:45 pm EST – Bay Area def. Dallas (3-2) – Great Challenger final. Tons of trash talk that some may or may not enjoy. French played like a monster in men’s but Bay Area was too much overall. Jillian Braverman and Daniel De La Rosa we’re game changers for this team, especially Braverman. As an alpha female, it is amazing Dallas was able to swing her in that trade as Fudge’s steadiness is not as valuable as a #1 female in Challenger. Bay Area too much. Ewa Radzikowska and Rachel Summers forming the best women’s team with 2nd and 4th round picks was masterful.
3:20 pm EST – ATX def. Florida (3-2) – This Premier season has come down a lot to who has picked the right players as opposed to right strategy. We have seen the Mad Drops thrive with a two girls situation, the Mashers and Smash not be quite as successful. The Smash gender matches were lost again and they won their mixed, but Jessie Irvine being a huge minus in singles crushed them as Gabe Tardio took advantage of that matchup. It looks like ATX is out on net games won but a 2-1 weekend is a better result for them.
Los Angeles def. St. Louis (3-2) – Julian Arnold has not been the unstoppable force without Thomas Wilson and he hasn’t been there in mixed the same way with Catherine, but the Mad Drop women and Hunter/Irina pick up the slack. They win the Dreambreaker again with their very strong Dreambreaker team and are off to the playoffs on net games. It is not a fluke for LA without Thomas Wilson and it has to feel good for St. Louis that they are right in the mix.
1:00 pm EST – California def. Milwaukee (3-2) – Chalk Milwaukee as another team definitely disappointed with its results. They were not going to get through on game differential anyway but their women haven’t won enough together. We wonder if this team may look to explore a trade in some capacity, at a minimum to try to change things up for next round. They only beat Frisco Clean Cause. BLQK, on the other hand, with Maggie Brascia back rides a balanced roster to a top of the group finish and semi-finals appearance with the bye. Maggie has looked solid and their men are playing well with Koop always being steady.
Seattle def. Frisco (4-0) – Seattle wins easily. Frisco has to try to make a change at this point. They are, by far, the worst team in Premier without a win to their name. How much value any of their players have is a different question and who would want to make a move with them. They can’t be losing their men’s matches. Those guys are 1-5 together across two events if we are not mistaken.
11:05 am EST – NYC def. SoCal (3-2) – Brendon Long in for Tyson McGuffin is no problem for NYC as he wins his mixed match with Bright over Brascia/Koller and then he finishes off the Dreambreaker for the victory. Anna Bright took 7 of 8 from Mary Brascia as NYC was able to overcome Riley Newman besting Rafa 6 for 8. It’s a tough loss for the Hard Eights who have Brascia/Koller go 0-3 on the weekend and don’t get enough from the rest of their squad as Riley Newman went 5-1 on the weekend. NYC is through to the playoffs once again and it is quite impressive without Tyson McGuffin.
New Jersey def. Las Vegas (3-1) – New Jersey went up 3-0 so that last game was meaningless in this matchup. Las Vegas’ men not being able to beat Patriquin/Ignatowich was the biggest thing here and meant that the 5’s only needed one mixed match. Las Vegas got a weird win in the wind yesterday and, although they are competitive every match, what you get with this team has been about as expected. New Jersey finally plays a match that is not a Dreambreaker and, if their men can win together, it opens everything up.
Friday, March 24th – Premier Group Stage and Challenger Playoffs
6:48 pm EST – Dallas def. Miami (3-1) – We clearly did not give Brandon French enough credit. He played very well this weekend and his team is off to the finals of the Challenger division. They won the gender matches and then French/Braverman were able to close it out in a trash talk filled, epic 22-20 victory. French and Warnick have to be the only two guys out there who can hit their backhands essentially backwards and do it so effectively. It makes them both quite difficult to play against. The De La Rosa for Chuck Taylor swap has worked along with what was always an outstanding trade to get Jillian Braverman. Braverman belongs here and you have to wonder if Columbus made a mistake swapping Braverman for Fudge. Really good run for Miami.
Bay Area def. Chicago (3-2) – Bay Area wins another Dreambreaker. They haven’t been as dominant as Tellez/Alshon lost their doubles match and Summers/Alshon lost their mixed matches – both of those teams have been their two most vulnerable spots across the two events. Tellez took a whole bunch of points off of DeHeart in the Dreambreaker and Chicago could not overcome that, 21-18 in the Dreambreaker. DeHeart seemed to finally find his stride in doubles but he didn’t have it for whatever reason in singles. Bay Area will go in favored for the final but you have to expect it will be close with Dallas.
5:02 pm EST – California def. Seattle (3-2) – Not only do we have an upset here, but we had Dylan Frazier getting after Ben Johns in the Dreambreaker, including 4 straight late in that Dreambreaker to help his team win. BLQK’s mixed situation is not really working this tournament as both Fed and Dylan lost their mixed matches to have this go to a Dreambreaker. Impressively, they were able to take down Ben Johns in men’s, which gave him his first MLP game loss on the year. Fun match and a group changing win for California.
Milwaukee def. Frisco (4-0) – Poor Frisco. That cannot be funout there to lose every match. They only have Seattle left and that’s unlikely to be a win for them. There’s not much to say and it’s just tough to do anything in Premier this year because you don’t get to make any moves. Maybe is a trade out there to be made?
Las Vegas def. SoCal (3-2) – Weird match. The women of the Hard Eights won while the men lost. The wind is playing havoc on these matches outside the covered center court and it’s making for some unique pickleball. The Hard Eights could have been in a position to really take control but they don’t get their biggest advantage, the men’s match and lose in a Dreambreaker. Kyle Yates was ripping and speeding up everything, and it worked in the wind. LV went back to Dekel/Vivienne and Lauren/Kyle, and that was important because it guaranteed them 1 mixed win with Dekel/Vivienne beating AJ/Mary. We now have 4, 1-1 teams in this group and it is 100% up for grabs. The Dreambreaker giveth and the Dreambreaker taketh away.
New Jersey def. NYC (3-2) – The 5’s only play Dreambreakers apparently. Much like the Hard Eights, what was supposed to be the 5’s biggest advantage, the women’s doubles, has not been there for both MLP events as Lea and Anna Leigh lost handily in their first match. Lea/James also have not been able to get it done in mixed, but Big H and Anna Leigh came through against the #1 team for NYC in mixed to get it done. This was supposed to be the Group of Death and that has borne out as it has been very competitive across all 4 teams so far. It means we will be avoiding any tiebreakers tomorrow in Group B and it comes down to a win and you are in situation for all 4 teams. Hilarious side note here was Rafa Hewett calling us out for questioning how good he would be with his Adidas paddle after winning his mixed match and then playing with a JOOLA in the Dreambreaker. Keep being you, Rafa!
2:45 pm EST – ATX def. Los Angeles (3-2) – ATX was up on the side switch for all of their 5 matches and only got the split in the doubles matches, but they had the favorable wind to finish along with some favorable net cords to win the Dreambreaker. The Mad Drops are even more built for a Dreambreaker with Hunter Johnson in for Thomas Wilson, but we have continued to believe these Dreambreakers are volatile. Jackie Kawamoto going 7 for 8 against Irina was a big difference maker. Despite the win, this Gabe Tardio situation is not ideal for ATX. They lose their men’s match to the Mad Drops with JW and a substitution of Hunter Johnson for Thomas Wilson, and then Jade/Gabe drop 10 straight points in mixed to Hunter/Irina to lose 21-15, after being up 15-11. Tardio has some really fast hands and there’s talent in him, but his consistency lacks still at times. If you had told the Mad Drops that Hunter Johnson wins both his doubles matches, do you think anyone thinks this team would lose?
St. Louis def. Florida (3-1) – The St. Louis Shock are going to be the belle of the ball if the keep winning. Their energy is completely infectious and it’s hard not think that does not make a difference. Allyce Jones and Simone Jardim would never be favored on tour against Irvine/Johnson, yet they won 21-13 with the most epic and fun final point to win it. Jay Devilliers and Erik Lange together are exactly what Jay needs for himself to be optimized – a heavy counter, right-side guy that will let him do his thing. Maybe some PPA partnerships together for those two? And Devilliers’ hands may not be the best but he covers so much ground in mixed, combined with Simone’s steadiness and it is a tough recipe for Rettenmaier/Johnson. At least Travis got his trash talking in the mixed match when they were up 7-3 but down 2 games to none. The Shock lose their last mixed match with Jones/Lange, which is the weak spot, but a 3-1 win is still a win.
12:48 pm EST – Chicago def. Columbus (3-0) – Columbus could not figure out its women’s matches as Fudge finishes 1-7 on the weekend. Yates Johnson and Fudge were up in their mixed match against Barr/Garnett, but couldn’t close the deal after some close calls at the end of the match. Chicago was also down in the women’s match and were able to pull it out. They are just a solid team that is tough to beat. They will play Bay Area.
Miami def. Texas (3-1) – You don’t know what you got ‘til it is gone. We didn’t realize how much we missed Jeff Warnick on tour but that man is a national treasure. He is barely playing pro pickleball these days and he’s coming out here with all his bravado along with winning matches. Warnick’s stuff is weird and you combine that with his trash talking at the Challenger level, he makes for a guy you don’t want to play against. The Miami women lost but the rest of the group picked up the slack as the women did their thing to allow Long and Warnick to make stuff happen in mixed. Confirmed that Matt Manasse picking himself may have been a poor draft selection. Miami will play Dallas in the semis.
11:20 am EST – SoCal def. New Jersey (3-2) – Dreambreaker’s can be volatile. The 5’s lose their second Dreambreaker in a row going back to the last tournament. They lose 21-18. Riley Newman played like an absolute beast all match, winning the men’s, dominating the mixed over Lea/James Ignatowich and taking down Anna Leigh Waters for the win in singles. We just don’t think you can win every Dreambreaker no matter how good you are and the 5’s will have to figure out their men’s and mixed stuff if they want to go far. The Hard Eights get a break to win in a Dreambreaker, which is not optimal for them, but Mary Brascia also played a strong Dreambreaker, getting points over Hayden. A surprise first match and this is what MLP is all about. Some stare downs from the Hard Eights men towards Jimmy Ignatowich in this match. Have Riley Newman and AJ Koller been listening to some podcasts?
New York def. Las Vegas (4-0) – New York is off to a much stronger start this time around as they dominate a Las Vegas team that beat them in a Dreambreaker last event. Las Vegas switched up their mixed pairings to put David with Yates and Stratman with Bar. It did not work for them after going down 2-0 and this is going to be a problem for this team if they can’t win either of their gender matches. That’s their strong point but that’s how it can go with a “balanced” team sometimes.
Seattle def. Milwaukee (4-0) – Seattle is off to the start we expected. This team could be a train. Semi-finals last time but Ben was undefeated, and he stays that way. If Milwaukee’s women are not beating the Pioneers, what are you getting at this point? It is looking more and more like Callie/Lucy are just another team that is good but not great, which has borne itself out on tour the first 3 months.
California def. Frisco (3-2) – Look at Clean Cause going to a Dreambreaker. They finally got a men’s win, which they should be able to do, against a strong Frazier/Staksrud team to boot, and they also were able to win against the California 1(b) mixed team of Koop/Staksrud, tight 22-20. They actually have an okay enough Dreambreaker team, other than Matt Wright and could not get it done. California has a good singles team, but not elite, and they end up taking it. That has to be tough for Frisco when a match was there for them to steal.
Thursday, March 23rd – Challenger Group Stage
7:30 pm EST – We want to give a little summary here of what happens going forward with Challenger. The playoffs are set with the #3 seed Miami vs. #6 seed Texas, and the #4 seed Columbus vs. #5 seed Chicago. The winner of the Miami vs.Texas match will pay Dallas and the winner of the other match will play Bay Area. The Shuffle Draft has created more competitive teams in the league with 3 teams missing the playoffs last event to now making the playoffs – Miami, Columbus and Texas. Both matches should be fun and there’s nothing that differentiates either team significantly. Columbus or Chicago will have a major uphill battle against Bay Area, but Columbus is better built to take them down in a Dreambreaker of any of the remaining 5 other teams.
6:23 pm EST – Ranchers def. Columbus (3-2) – The Ranchers, a perfectly built Dreambreaker team, win 2 of their 3 on the day, and are through on point differential of 0.18%. Apparently the Johnson brothers didn’t get the playbook on how to beat Whitwell in singles. Find the right ball and then go up on her, and when you get up don’t keep her back, bring her up to the net. There is a playbook, the Johson’s should read it. The other key though was Whitwell coming to net regardless on her returns and making Yates pass her, which he had trouble doing. Whitwell went 5 for 12 against Yates, which was the difference maker, and Scott Doerner did what he needed to against Megan Fudge. The Ranchers pulled all the right strings. Columbus was up in the women’s match and did not win that, and that was the difference maker in the gender doubles stuff. Columbus is still through to the playoffs and are first in their group based on net games on the backs of Klinger’s undefeated doubles day that allows them to compensate for Fudge’s 1-5 day.
As an aside, the line calls today in Dreambreakers have been brutal. It kills momentum and players are just calling balls out because they know that challenge is there to save them. We didn’t expect that the new challenge system would make players less honest, but that appears to be the case.
Brooklyn def. Atlanta (3-1) – Brooklyn got it done 3-0 to start so the final mixed match between Carr/Nunnery and Buckner/Newell was a moot point. It seemed pretty obvious to us that Atlanta could not sit tight and do nothing at the Shuffle Draft, but they rested on their laurels to an 0-3 flipping of the script here in Daytona. The Aces, on the other hand, took a bold approach with Hurricane Black and finish a solid 2-1 in the group. Black went 3-0 in women’s doubles on the day. She has two things going for her right now: (1) fast hands, (2) covers a lot of court. With her being so new, keeping her on the left in mixed with Dow so comfortable on the right has been the right thing to do and finally paid off in this match for them. Heartbreaking for the Aces not to make it through to the playoffs on such a minor point differential but if they win that last mixed match against Atlanta they would have been in.
4:28 pm EST – Chicago def. Miami (3-1) – We have three, 2-1 teams, in this group, which means we go to the tiebreaker. The Slice beat Miami in a close one. A split of the gender matchups with the Slice women winning and the Miami men, left the Slice to take both the mixed matches. That has to feel good for Ryler DeHeart/Emily Ackerman, who had not looked great together. They avoid a Dreambreaker and will be through on game differential along with Miami – net games won. Miami is 1st in the division at 2-1 and Chicago is 2nd. We didn’t have any of the 2-1, 3-way ties last go around.
Utah def. D.C. (3-2) – Utah is done despite the win, but the Dreambreaker is inevitable int hese events. D.C. and Utah both play their second Dreambreaker of the day after Utah went up 2-0 and lost both their mixed matches to D.C. for a tie ball game. Utah comes out on top of the Dreambreaker. No stream so we didn’t see the results of it. Utah’s weakness is as a Dreambreaker team, but that’s the second one they win today. The most consistent performer for D.C. in doubles has been Stefan Auvergne/Shelby Bates as they have won all 3 matches today, but they just didn’t get enough wins again elsewhere today. The Hendry pickup didn’t really work and Querrey continues to be the same, maybe slightly better version of himself. Tough haul for Utah, who just lose out on game differential, and continue to show they are a solid team in this format. D.C., on the other hand, are hurting from that Querrey selection and finish 0-3 on the day in spite of their competitive matches.
Bay Area def. Dallas (3-2) – Dallas is making some noise as a team. They finish 2-1 and only lose to the Challenger favorites in a Dreambreaker. They lose the gender matches and win the mixed matches, and this revamped Dallas team, with a probably underrated weird Brandon French, is a legitimate contender now. Bay Area has now played two Dreambreakers and it is almost hard to see how any other Challenger team can get 3 wins off them. They are so good as a Dreambreaker team, with 3 elite Challenger level singles players. They will be tough to stop in the playoffs as they get a bye to the semi-finals.
3:05 pm EST – Dallas def. Orlando (3-1) – Plus 1 for a way better website for MLP. Minus 1 for less streamed courts. We have missed some matches here. The Squeeze women have been struggling together and they are done from the playoffs. Rettger and Oshiro also have lost their women’s match against AZ so they are 0-3 on the day. The Squeeze men lose to French/De La Rosa and Rettger/Fought couldn’t beat Gecheva/De La Rosa. The Jillian Braverman move pays off for them as they are in the playoffs regardless of how they do against Bay Area.
Bay Area def. AZ (3-1) – Bay Area is through to the playoffs as well. Heather Nobler has had a good showing today in women’s, going 2-1 as she has beaten Bobbi Oshiro/Rachel Rettger. But that’s the only win AZ get here as Pesa Teoni has not been able to get anything rolling, despite losing a close mixed match to Tellez/Radzikowska. AZ is 0-2 and out of the playoffs once again. Tough for them to lose Andreas Siljestrom to injury, but the Nobler pickup was still weird.
Texas def. Atlanta (3-2) – Another Dreambreaker loss for Atlanta. They lose 21-10 in a Dreambreaker that stacked Whitwell against Hunter Johnson (she went 2 for 8) and Pat Smith went 8-0 apparently. The men for the Ranchers stopped their losing streak as Scott Doerner went 2-0 in this matchup while the elders, Lee Whitwell and Pat Smith, continue to struggle overall relative to this Challenger level. Atlanta was the most obvious choice to take a step back this event and they sure have. Texas will need a win over Columbus and a Brooklyn loss to guarnatee the playoffs.
Columbus def. Brooklyn (3-1) – It is problematic for the Aces if their men don’t win. CJ Klinger is 4-0 on the day overall as they win in men’s and he wins in mixed over Carr/Nunnery. If CJ Klinger is winning his matches, this is a contending team. The problem is that Fudge is not winning like a #1 female needs to as she and Rane lost 21-16 to Carr/Black, which was Columbus’ only loss of the day here. Brooklyn needs a win over ATL to get into the playoffs but will need a Texas loss.
2:26 pm EST – D.C. def. Chicago (3-1) – Pretty even Dreambreaker with the Slice pulling out a win after almost blowing a big lead, with the surprise difference maker being Susannah Barr winning her matchup against the better singles player in Shelby Bates. The Slice win the matchup but it was unclear what the Slice were thinking in their men’s doubles match. Players sometimes don’t like dinking straight on but Ryler DeHeart constantly going cross-court with Auvergne instead of getting more balls Sam Querrey was baffling. Querrey is basically playing the role of a giant, mixed female on the left and his length creates issues to dink straight on to him. He’s almost half-Erne-ing all the time and sitting heavy on that forehand counter so teams need to figure out how to exploit that better because playing the majority of balls to Auvergne is not a winning recipe. It seemed like Ryler was figuring out where to go at Querrey right towards the end of their mixed match as they staved off match points against Hendry/Querrey to push it to a Dreambreaker. DC, competitive as expected.
Miami def. Utah (3-1 The Shuffle Draft is making the league more competitive overall. We saw that with Columbus, even though Megan Fudge didn’t win her matches, and we are seeing it with Miami too. Regina Goldberg is a reset machine so putting her with Brendon Long suddenly creates a very solid mixed team and they were able to beat Esquivel/Smith in a tight one. The women for Miami did what they needed to against a slightly favored Utah Black Diamonds pairing, which allowed them to split the gender matches. Jeff Warnick is a damn weird due to play against as he and Truong were also able to beat Cassidy/McMillan. That’s a win against one of the favored teams for Miami but this team suddenly looks way different with Brendon Long.
12:12 pm EST – 4 matches already played so far today in Challenger. The Breakers win in a Dreambreaker against the Squeeze. The Breakers got their first two men’s matches but. surprisingly, went down in the mixed matches, and then were able to pull away in the Dreambreaker. The Breakers have two men that are built for mixed but two women that are less experienced. . Their Dreambreaker team may be the best in Challenger, though, and the Squeeze have one player who is an above average singles player in Bobbi Oshiro, and she doesn’t even really play singles on tour anymore. In the other early match, Dallas wins 4-0. We wondered how good this AZ squad would be and it’s hard to see what you have with both their #2 players.
In the second set of matches, we had the Bouncers looking fairly strong to start the day but could not pull out the Dreambreaker. The Atlanta Bouncers have now played 6 Dreambreakers but they have lost their last 2. We thought this might be unsustainable given their roster and that played out in match #1. They get smoked 21-8 in the Dreambreaker. Not sure what Columbus was doing in the first women’s match. They didn’t start grinding Trifunovic until they got down 15-6 and almost made a comeback, but it was too far gone. Interesting to see Fudge on the right with Milan Rane on the left in that matchup. The Bouncers men beat Hunter Johnson and Ben Newell. It’s not a good start for Megan Fudge going 0-2 as they traded her with the hopes she would boost their team and it didn’t happen in this first match, but they get the win so all is well that ends well.
Who had Lee Whitwell getting dominated in a Dreambreaker by a lady who is 7 months pregnant? The Dreambreaker magic is officially gone for Whitwell who dumped far too many balls into the net and the Aces win despite blowing a 20-16 lead in the Dreambreaker. The Brooklyn Aces got their doubles matches, including Hurricane Black’s first MLP match ever against the revamped Ranchers team with Scott Doener. Corrine Carr looks pretty damn good for 7 months pregnant and is moving well. The Ranchers get their mixed matches as Black did not look comfortable at all, which makes sense with how new she is to the game. Dow may have to come over and try to take all the drops because she can’t work up right now at this level comfortably. Tyra Black confirmed fast AF.
I got a glimpse of the new website last weekend, looking good!!
Website is doing very well today. Big ups to them on the changes and that it is actually really easy to follow along, including live score updates!
When Brooklyn went up 3-0 on Atlanta, the last match did matter. If Brooklyn wins 4-0 (rather than 3-1), not only are they through, but could have even been the group winner depending on the score.
You are correct. That was an oversight. It cost them the playoffs to lose.
It’s interesting that Dallas got the 2 seed for the playoffs despite not winning their Group. You would think that the #2 Group winner would get the #2 seed. Then, the #3 Group winner would get the 3 seed.
You would think that Dallas would only be able to get the #4 seed as the top 2nd place team.
It is interesting. This has been a debate in other sports and it has always seemed unfair that the team in a crummy division can get a better seed over a team in a better division. But this isn’t quite the same as the records are all the same.
I do agree that things were really competitive. In Mesa, we saw a 1-2 Brooklyn team make the playoffs. Today, we had two 2-1 teams (Brooklyn & Utah) not make the playoffs.
All 2-1 teams. We’ll have to see if that happens Friday as well.
The last playoff spot came down to the Aces vs the Ranchers. The difference in the tiebreaker used to decide was 2 total points, which led to the Ranchers advancing.
Using point differential as a tie breaker though is a bit suspect, since the MLP scoring freeze makes it so that many rallies won near the end of a game don’t actually count in the score. They’re not measuring the difference in the actual number of rallies each team won, even though the statistic makes it seem like they are.
As an example, in one of the games between the Aces and the Ranchers, the Aces hit 20 points and their score got frozen while they had a 20-12 lead. The final score was 21-17, but they actually won 25 rallies while the Ranchers won 17 rallies. If this was scored by the actual rallies won, then suddenly the Aces would be ahead in the playoff tiebreaker. This did not affect the other 3 games or dreambreaker between these two teams. I didn’t check their other matches, but there’s a good chance the Aces actually had a better rally differential, and only lost out on the playoffs because not all of the rallies count.
Maybe I’m the only person besides the members of the Aces who are bugged by this. But why have the tiebreaker be based on rallies won or lost if we’re not going to count all of the rallies won or lost?
So to be clear they changed it this time around. It goes to net games won first and then point percentage. They were tied in net games won because the Aces lost their last mixed match. If they had won that, they would have been through. You have to base the tiebreakers on something and they went away from point % differential as the first tiebreaker. Seems fair enough.
I’m aware of the order of the tiebreakers, but that’s not my point. I think it’s somewhat unfair that the Aces won more rallies proportionally, but they get bounced from the playoffs because too many of their rally wins didn’t count as points.
Separately, the Ranchers participated in 2 more Dreambreakers than the Aces, so it’s not completely comparing apples to apples to count point differential.
And if we’re trying to pick between the Aces and Ranchers for a last spot in the playoffs, why not use the head to head win?
People can dislike the freeze, but given that it exists, why would they treat all rallies as points for a tiebreaker? The whole philosophy of the freeze is that it rewards closers and penalizes those who can’t. Of course that philosophy would get carried through to the tiebreaker as well; ignoring points and counting rallies instead would be nonsensical and reward teams that can’t finish it out.
“Separately, the Ranchers participated in 2 more Dreambreakers than the Aces, so it’s not completely comparing apples to apples to count point differential.”
True that it’s not apples to apples, but I think *on average* this would actually work against the teams that do go to the Dreambreakers… all other things being equal, the teams that go 3-2 are going to have a smaller point differential than teams that win 3-1 or 3-0 because the teams are more equally matched, so I think it’s fair. If you can still win on point differential despite going to DBs, you’re doing especially well in your other matches.
Yeah, I certainly see that it would make sense to have the tiebreaker be based on the same thing that the score is based on. My problem is definitely more with the philosophy of the freeze. This is just one of the effects. The freeze makes many matches appear much closer than they actually are. The final score isn’t necessarily a reflection of who won more rallies. So we have a metric that is skewed toward really close results. When adding up across matches, it will naturally lead to extremely close tiebreakers that are basically decided by “who was stuck in the freeze for longer”. It happened at least once in Mesa (BLQK/Mashers), and now it’s happened here. That is a weird way to decide between teams. When it’s that close for a tiebreaker, maybe they should just have a play-in dreambreaker to decide who advances.
As for whether dreambreakers are helpful, the Ranchers won 21-10 in a dreambreaker against the Bouncers, and that was way more than the difference in the final point differential %. The Bouncers lost another dreambreaker 21-8. But the Aces didn’t get to play a dreambreaker against them. If they had been allowed, then they potentially also get a big point differential benefit. Even if they just win by a small amount, they’d increase their “games NET”, and move up in the tiebreaker standings, into the playoffs. They just changed a rule to make sure all teams play all 4 doubles matches, because having some teams play 3 and others 4 would mess with the tiebreaker. For the same reason, having some play 4 and others play 5 also messes with that tiebreaker.
You have to figure out tiebreakers some way and someone is going to be unhappy one way or the other.
Yeah that’s probably fair. It can’t work the other way when you have a 3-way tie though. You could go rogue and move away from the typical formula for 3-way tiebreakers. Denise H’s suggestion of a 6 team group is interesting because that’s how they wanted to do it before players complained.
Yeah, having 2 groups of 6 could have been nice. They’d need to be able to play 6 simultaneous games to make the timing work. It’s tough to have just 3 guaranteed games and to be able to be eliminated so quickly. And with so few games you will always have weird tiebreaker situations.
They might want to feature teams more than having 6 games on at a time.
Seems crazy that the Aces can go 2–1 and not advance to the playoffs, especially when the Ranchers have the same record and lost to the Aces, yet they advanced. I don’t think MLP has quite figured out the right way to do this, but I really appreciate that they continue to tweak things to try to get it right.
I think I’d like to see bigger groups in pool play, maybe 2 groups of 6. Playing 5 matches rather than 3 would help ensure that the better teams advance. 3 matches doesn’t feel like enough to decide who makes the playoffs.
This is interesting because they were going to do two groups of 6 this year until people complained about too many matches, which seems insane to complain about 4 extra matches to 21 as that equates to 4 games to 11.
It was a 3-way tie though and that’s how 3-way ties work in round robin, group stage formats. It will be the same with the World Cup or any event that uses a round robin.
Ugh… James was an error machine in his first men’s match this morning. When he’s not good, that’s what he does…. tons of balls into the net.
Jeez. The James Ignatowich from the last few PPA tournaments is nowhere to be found. He was not good in his men’s match and then was flat out awful in mixed with Lea. Lea wasn’t much better in mixed. All Riley and Lindsey had to do was be solid and get the ball back over the net, which they did well. James had better either loosen up or wake up.
Wow, you’re not kidding… he finished 29th out of 32 in the individual standings this morning. Only won 42% of his points
MLP is a different beast too. You don’t get that time to get into matches and different partners.
The Hard Eights men are experienced too
Iggy hayden lost 21-18, not really surprising since Riley AJ best men’s team in draw. In mixed, Lea made the most errors on the court, and missed 5 dinks. Iggy didn’t play great, but Lea threw that one away
Wow! The 5s totally choked away their first match. Once again, the 5s really underperformed in the dreambreaker, losing to three players that never play singles. Anna Leigh got totally owned by Riley.
This bad loss could keep the 5s out of the playoffs. Even if they win the next two, which at this point I seriously doubt, they may still be left out.
Dreambreakers are fun! Such slim margins for victory.
Scraping your way into a Dreambreaker just isn’t a good strategy. It is no longer working for the 5s. Even their Dreambreaker wins in Mesa were very close. Teams need to follow the Pioneers lead and take care of business in doubles.
No it is not. They won against the Hustlers but that was tight as well.
For sure, getting Riley back was a big deal. He played well in all his matches. Anna Leigh struggled against his length in the Dreambreaker.
Mary was pretty bad in the women’s doubles match, making tons of errors. However, she was solid in her mixed match and then played very well in the Dreambreaker.
The Hard Eights simply outplayed the 5s. Great for them.
Riley moves to Dallas ….looks like AJ gonna be his new P in the PPA or just lives stream run private exhibitions against Wilson / Arnold for underground cash in DFW, Austin or HTown. Longhorn Network did it for years with ESPN.
Isn’t it Chicago vs Bay Area and Miami vs. Dallas?
Yes thanks. Corrected
Dylan going 7-1 against Ben in their last 8 Dreambreaker rallies was wild. I think I even saw him fist pump once haha
Hhahahaha! That’s why all of this is fun.
The 5s are a tough team to figure out. You just don’t know what you are going to get from each player from game to game. The consistency is just not there. Lea had a rough day. Hayden was the star against the Hustlers.
Lacy Schneeman continues to impress me. She should be drafted quite a bit higher next time.
It hasn’t been the best day so far for Lea. Imagine it is a lot of pressure playing with AL and James, and she can’t play her usual game. Mixed is her weakest event, but she’s better than what she has showed. Lacy has played very well.
With the continued prevalence of Dreambreakers, do you think that will impact how teams draft in the future? There are some teams that are clearly at a disadvantage in a singles format, and I wonder if GMs/owners will be more mindful when constructing their teams next time. On the other hand, we’ve also seen the inherent volatility of Dreambreakers with some teams that look like they’re built for the tiebreaker (e.g. the 5’s, Mad Drops) losing to teams where it would look like they have a sizable edge on paper.
We think it already has impacted but our view continues to be that as long as you have competent singles players, you should not be thinking too much about Dreambreaker because of its volatility. Dylan Frazier besting Ben, the Hard Eights beating the 5s, Las Vegas taking down NYC in the first event. The key is not having basically incompetent singles players. Jessie Irvine is not incompetent and has improved, but she really got eaten up in her Dreambreaker scenarios, which was tough for Florida to overcome. Matt Wright is also close to that incompetent level relative to the men as well. It could cause a guy like him to take a huge drop.
The 5s finally showed up fairly completely this morning. Lea cut down on the errors a bit and it made a difference. Hayden continues to be the #1 ranked player in Premier this tourney, not something anyone expected.
While the 5s already had the Owls match won at 3-0, Hayden/James losing the men’s game means the Hustlers get the #1 spot coming out of the group (I think, because of NET games won) and the 5s cannot get a bye in the playoffs. If the 5s men had won that game, the 5s would have been the top seed and may have even gotten a playoff bye.
Oops, I made an error in the above post. It was James and Lea that lost the mixed match, not James/Hayden.
Trying to figure out how Frisco can be THIS bad. Zane was drafted too high for a start, although I like him as a player. They should at least be doing better in mens like you said. Has anyone watched their games all that closely? Are they both playing poorly? It doesn’t always seem like Matt is super invested and I’m not sure how valuable he is in this format if he cant get mixed results with anyone other than Lucy and doesn’t play singles.
I haven’t seen much of them, but across the 2 events they have won 1 men’s game, 1 women’s game, and 1 mixed game total, I believe (out of 21?). Their men’s games are typically very close – lots of 2-3 point losses. But the women are getting absolutely blasted in many games.
Most other teams drafted 1 or 2 women in the first 2 rounds. All the top women were gone by the time Clean Cause got to make their 3rd and 4th pick. The only other team to just draft women late (Hard 8s) also has had trouble in women’s matches, but their men are stronger and they also pair well with the women for mixed.
The big thing about the Hard Eights is that Lindsey is an elite female in mixed and that allows her to win with Riley or even Stefan. Lina and Yana are not at that level, or even Lacy gets to play with a higher end mixed player in Rafa.
It’s Matt. No one wants to play with him or wants him on their team. He’s a pompous ass.
^Facts aside. I wouldn’t be surprised if Frisco members are throwing matching because they don’t want to be around him.
It is hard to figure out how they can be this bad. Their men should win a little bit more and you would think someone could pull out more than 1 in 6 mixed matches. Matt may be checked out. That could be a big part of it.
Simone and Allyce blowing the 19-13 lead against Anna Leigh and Lea really sucked the life out of the Shock. The 5s’ men came in and rolled and so did Lea and James in mixed. When the 5s keep the errors low, they are quite good. Hayden went from “Will he even be in Premier next season?” to MLP Daytona MVP. He has really played lights out.
I rewatched the 5s vs Shock match. My previous post was unfair to the Shock. They had plenty of energy and fight after failing to win the women’s game. The big comeback by AL and Lea did give the 5s a boost and they simply outplayed the Shock in the next two games.
That is a tough one to swallow and really could have propelled them forward.
The 5s’ Saturday magic wasn’t there this morning. Anna Leigh going 0-2 is shocking. BLQK had only won one mixed match all tournament, but then won both this morning. BLQK played very solid pickleball, while the 5s were up and down, showing flashes, but not enough of them. Andrea Koop played very well. The BLQK defense was fantastic. Anna Leigh had trouble putting balls away.
Sheesh…. I totally forgot to mention that incredible women’s doubles match. That was flat-out awesome pickleball. I think Lea played a couple out balls on her sideline at the end, points they ended up losing.
Anna Leigh continuing to struggle is one of the bigger underrated storylines. They have been close to being out of the playoffs and if they were this would be a much bigger storyline.
I’ve got to give it to Ritchie, after the draft I did not thing the BLQK Bears had a chance of being a Championship contender. Super happy they are though! Should never doubt BLQK at MLP though
Never doubt them!
Fun show this weekend! I prefer the “real” teams — teams that don’t scream themselves hoarse after each point — if that’s “low energy”, then so be it. Better to be “low” than “phony”, imho. Of course there are a small number of players for whom grand vocalizations and gesticulations after most points is the “real” them, and that’s cool, again, because it’s real.
Hopefully this finals has shown you don’t have to strain your vocal cords and fake some extreme level of agitation to win/make finals in MLP, and players can be more themselves.
You say Ben has won 2 of 3 MLPs, but so has Irina. Riley got kicked to the curb this event, and so did Ben last event. ALW hasn’t yet been anywhere else except the curb.
That’s because MLP team format dilutes the massive skill spikes which exist in some few players, and because MLP has such a magnified component of luck. Not saying that’s a bad thing, PPA already does a good job of finding out who’s best, we don’t need another org doing the same thing.
MLP is about entertainment, and they’re doing a good job of it, I think. Who didn’t love watching ALW play Riley in singles during their dreambreaker?
The 5’s seem to have the most talented team, but they are poorly constructed.
Lea Jansen appears to be far better in women’s doubles, than in mixed doubles. She seems to not enjoy being targeted, and she makes these strings of errors from time to time. The only problem is, when playing with AL, she is kind of also playing mixed doubles. Lea lost 2 matches with AL, and went 1-4 in mixed with Iggy, (after they went 3-0 in Mesa.) Lea’s volatility does not lend itself well this role. Should the 5’s trade Lea for a steadier, more compatible complement to AL and James?
MLP format is very interesting that adds in luck and some of the most high stakes pickleball we’ve seen. Some players are playing like their life is on the line! The most interesting teams this weekend to me was the 5’s and their up and down roller coaster of a team. Lots of blame being put on Lea Jansen but I thought the big 3 (AL James and Jansen) all did not live up to their capability this weekend. Mixed isn’t her strong suit and she did not play well especially day 1 but James was not the same James we’ve been seeing at PPA’s. You can’t forget Lea was the top performer in MLP Mesa on the 5’s and MLP Daytona Hayden outshined everyone. Where is their number 1 overall pick that was supposed to carry this team?
The main storyline to me is I think AL/Lea could be a scary team if they learned how to play with one another. ALW doesn’t respect Jansen’s tools or power she is stepping over and even taking put aways. Lea was often standing off the court all weekend with AL playing 2 on 1, I lost count of the times Lea was actually off the court. You saw this with Bright and Parenteau with AL and it seems to be the way she plays but Lea has a tough rally scoring situation that neither of those are facing. Are these two really practicing with one another since they’re now facing one another in singles and doubles finals? I have to give them the benefit of the doubt as they are in a high stakes rally scoring situation and that does bring different results than traditional sideout.
The 5’s could evaluate maybe looking to ATX pickle ballers and splitting up the Kawamoto’s as they both would suit AL/Lea separately. Lea would be a huge boost in energy/leadership and you could slide her in with JW in mixed where in the past they had major success due to JW hands to bail Jansen out of her quick trigger pulls. The Kawamotos are great role players for players like Jansen/Waters and ATX gaining Jansen could give them the firepower they need.
James and Jansen you hear quite a bit of blame but Anna Leigh Waters was the number 1 overall pick and both MLP’s has underperformed. I am brutally picking apart a team and players that made it to the Quarters and Semis, so if I were the owner I’d go for it one last time together. Lea is much too dangerous on another team to get rid of especially since her mixed results this year have improved.
Interesting idea on trading Lea for a Kawamoto. Prior to Daytona, I would’ve thought splitting them would be good due to similar skill sets. However, they beat Irina/Catherine and Jessie/Jorja which are great wins. Their only loss was to Simone/Allyce who were solid this weekend.
You think it was a little much to give Dizon the MVP?? She played amazing all week. Who would you have picked?
Tyler Loong. For being able to win with Dizon as his partner.
I’m no MLP fan nor a Ben Johns fan for a variety of reasons. But Johns wins another MLP title…..wins just about every game he plays in and yet DOESN’T get the mvp again. That’s absurd.
I’m sure Dizon played great like Whitwell did when she won it. Congrats to Dizon and seems like a classy person so no disrespect to her. But how does this happen? The hands down best player in pickleball leads the team to a title and he doesn’t get the MVP. You take Ben Johns off that team, they don’t win it all and I think few would dispute that. And my understanding is he essentially picked the players for the team and none of his teammates are current considered top 5 players in PPA circles.
Silly stuff like this makes it even harder to take MLP seriously….gimmicky format aside Glad the pros are making $$$ from this. But not giving the award to BJ just seems silly and amateur hour and who knows if there is agenda behind the decision.
By points won % and adjusted plus/minus %, Dizon was the best player on the Pioneers (Dizon was 3rd overall, Wright 4th, Loong 5th, Johns 6th, interestingly). Best player on the winning team seems like a pretty good metric for picking MVP to me. Wright had +6 net wins, Dizon had +5, so you could make an argument for Wright, I guess.
Yeah, agree, most valuable doesn’t necessarily mean best. Winning the second string mixed game is just as important as winning first string, so whoever can put up a high % of points is a fine way to pick mvp. (if it only meant best overall player, bj would in even if pioneers didn’t!)
I’m all for looking at analytics in PB and sports to a point….but I just don’t think you can follow the metrics to a conclusion on who is the MVP. They are playing different events and have different roles within events. Games won by a player seems to be the most important to me – and Johns only lost one game this weekend as the alpha player from what I have heard. Maybe someone can confirm that. I didn’t watch much MLP (I can’t take most of the format like locking the score, singles dreambreaker but that’s just me) but I watched the title game Johns was taking 80% of the court in men’s and mixed and seemed to dominate. No disrespect to his teammates, but nobody thinks that team would win it all without Ben Johns and clearly he played well this weekend. If you think otherwise, then go ahead pick Wright or Dizon with the #1 overall pick next time.
yeah except when it came time to clinch the championship she lost. And the guy who should have got MVP, was called upon to clinch. which he did. the award as it stands is a popularity vote, a feel good award. At some point MLP is going to need to grow up and be a real pro league and do things the right way, and give the award to the player that is indispensable to the goal of winning a Championship. Yes, as the left side player who is able to influence more points and effect play, Wright deserved more consideration for the award than the player that got it.
This should not be the award that goes to the most unexpected performer. It is most valuable. You could slot a few players in for Meghan and that team may see similar results. You could not do the same for Ben and Etta relative to draft slot. Agreed.
“. the award as it stands is a popularity vote, a feel good award. ” LOL, what? It’s somehow simultaneously being criticized for being too objective AND too subjective.
What I find troubling about Ben Johns not getting the award is there might be an agenda behind it that might not have much to do with on court performance. It could just be a “feel good” kind of award designed to give other players more attention. MLP might think it is boring to have BJ or ALW get the glory prize and they are looking for alterative narrative to help make MLP look more exciting and “fair” than typical PPA events. So MVP is a marketing gimmick. So a less popular pro like Dixon or Whitwell and their sponsors can brag about their MVP who has a probably has a new $300 paddle coming out. SMH if that’s the agenda.
Many say there agenda within DUPR to claim that its rating system can accurately compare women and men with its style of rating system. Most PB pros I know privately say this is very flawed and misguided. So giving the MVP to a female helps develop that narrative that DUPR seems to really want and crave. And before someone calls me some kind of sexist pig and gaslights me, I’m a firm believer that ALW is better than a lot of male PB pros out there. I would love to see her play in a men’s doubles event with BJ or Riley and I’d bet $$$ she could win a bunch of matches and possibly make a deep run. An event like that interests me a lot more than MLP. And if ALW’s team won the MLP title or finished a close 2nd and she won almost all of her games, I’d vote for her as MVP and push back on someone else getting the award like I’m doing so here. But when you are giving the award to Whitwell or Dizon or Wright over BJ when he wins the title and dominates, makes me suspicious that there is an agenda involving DUPR and its rating system. Big sigh that I have to suspect this.
Oh and let’s not forget that Ben Johns isn’t exactly the favorite person of some paddle companies as well as disgruntled PB pros for personal stuff that sure sounds like happened off the court. Could keeping the MVP award to a controversial GOAT of Pickleball be by design? I’m not sure I’m quite there at least yet, but the decision to keep the MVP from Johns is so absurd that the fact I have to even think about it is troubling. MVP awards should be based around on-court performance and have zero to do with off the court stuff like keeping paddle companies happy or if someone is a jerk or even worse.
Stuff like this = Pro PB has a LONG way to go to be taken seriously by mainstream athletics. And the chaos about legal/illegal paddles and PEDs doesn’t help either. We need some adults in the room fixing these problems so in a few years we can be more ready for prime time in professional sports.
I look forward to the next PPA and see if Matt/Riley or Dylan/JW can take down the Johns. Or if Bright/Iggy can hang with Ben/ALW. Maybe in six months to a year, a women’s team comes together can give ALW a serious run in doubles. Maybe those narratives are “boring” but they aren’t phony or feel good awards or marketing gimmicks.
Are you not aware of how MVP is picked? No one conspired to keep the award from Johns, and he was very close to winning it at Daytona.
LOL what? that’s exactly what it is. it’s a JOKE. I I suspect the one laughing the most is the best player in the world.