With MLP Announcing the Signing of Players, is the PPA Tour Set to Announce the Re-Birth of Vibe Pickleball League?
The tour wars are officially back. After a very brief armistice, it sounds like MLP and the PPA are in the thick of it once again. MLP released news on Thursday that they were in the process of signing top players to multi-year, guaranteed contracts. The announcement came somewhat out of nowhere and signaled that the game was back on.
The PPA mentioned at some point on their broadcast for the Kansas City Open there would be an announcement on Friday, which sounds like it is going to be the re-birth of the defunct Vibe Pickleball League that was quickly scrapped following the announcement of the merger between MLP and the PPA last year.
We know things have never been sunshine and roses despite the apparent merger between the PPA and MLP, but this is definitely unexpected news. Considering that the PPA became the first organization to open up the sports betting market to pro pickleball on Thursday, it felt like the announcement from MLP was a direct response to things already happening behind the scenes.
The fractured state of pro pickleball could now be back in an even bigger way than before. We are hearing that it may be more than just a small handful of players that are putting pen to paper with MLP and are signing written agreements. As has been the case since Tom Dundon acquired the PPA and pushed for exclusive contracts, things appear to be happening at an incredibly rapid pace right now with pro players being forced to make big decisions.
The last couple of years as a pro pickleball fan have been a roller coaster and it’s time to buckle up yet again. Things are happening. There will be a lot more to discuss in the coming days.
Do you think the timing of pickleball sports betting going live was to show the signed PPA players that there would be other revenue streams for $. Ignatowich podcast theorized that betting would put the money in the player’s pockets over appearance fees. I don’t follow the betting part of sports but the gambling revenue stream is something I’ve heard from various pros and podcasts — upping pro income. KOTC (Loong) should be releasing their podcast with Pardoe any day/minute and it’ll be interesting if they were able to go into any of this.
They may not release it now? A lot of old news after recording. It is possible on sports betting or the MLP reacted to betting announcement
So are the PPA folks just seeing there is no profit to be made in MLP and pulling out? If the PPA-signed players leave MLP after this season (or even before??), then MLP is even more worthless – it will just be team pickleball for APP players. They might have 19 or 20 “teams” left, with squads like Utah, Seattle, and Dallas bailing, but most of the premier players will be gone.
I don’t think most of the top players will be gone from MLP. Many will sign with the MLP, probably a lot more than with the PPA. An off-season will be very appealing.
IMHO, players should be wary of PPA and Dundon. He is not someone I would do business with. I’ve owned software companies and I’ve been involved with a pro tour in another sport. Dundon is all about Dundon. I know the type well.
MLP will do fine. What will happen with the two tours – hard to predict.
The PPA has not created the best goodwill amongst players on the whole. Whether this impacts things will be interesting
Not the case it seems
This is a good thing. The PPA tour is unethical with their business practices. It can also continue to be argued that draws/results/contracts are illegitimate, ultimately making the tour a glorified exhibition. That’s the organization, though. Not the players.
With MLP moving away from PPA there will be a chance to build franchise players/teams, and not have to worry about the ego and scripting that PPA leadership brings to the table.
Thank someone I am not the only one who thinks PPA is unethical, corrupt, and could care less about the players (added a bit :). Thank you, Chad.
Quite possibly but who knows if it goes this way
It’s the old competition cliche, “Who wants it more?”
Obv both sides have big bucks, so it’s just a question of who is going to dig deeper (into their bank accounts)?
I would guess a million/year apiece for Ben/ALW for say, 3 years guaranteed would get them to sign.
Half a million apiece for Riley, JW, CP — players on that level. Say there are 10 players on this level.
Quarter million apiece for the next 10-15 best players.
100k apiece for the next say, 30 players.
So about 15 million a year (all guaranteed) for player contracts should wrap up almost every player of note. You’ll own the sport, as the PPA does now.
You won’t get Matt Wright/Andrea Koop (I’m guessing) because they don’t want to give up their careers. Might be a couple others, but those players will still happily enter your tournaments, because they enjoy competing at the highest level. This is good, because they’re essentially “free”.
So the bidding starts at 15 million, which is not a lot of money to control the future of the entire sport of pickleball, if you truly believe pro pickleball has a bright future.
Both sides can easily afford this, both sides know this.
Now an interesting thing here is that the MLP did NOT announce that their contracts would be exclusive. The contract language might be exclusive, we don’t know, but if it’s not, then the PPA can still exist, even if they lose the bidding war, because they can just offer big purses for some tournaments, and the players will certainly attend if there’s enough money to be won.
IDK if the PPA’s business model can tolerate such a change, but we’ll see.
But if I’m the PPA, and I’ve been hearing certain MLP owners on podcasts saying how only 1 of MLP or PPA can exist, and the other needs to die, then I’m not anticipating anything except that losing the bidding war means the end of the PPA, so I’m digging deep and asking my bank for a loan.
IIRC, certain players are good friends with MLP owners, and certain players are close with Pardoe. So I imagine that there is a certain amount of knowledge on both sides about what the other side is thinking, which will be an interesting thread to follow. Do I tell player X a deliberate lie, just to see if that information makes it to the other side? Juicy bit for NML investigative reporting…call all the big guns back from vacation, it’s all hands on deck!
Great Thoughts Fred
Ugh! I’ve really been enjoying the PPA and MLP this year, thanks to having more talent in PPA and all the talent in MLP. Now it’s looking like a potential splintered mess again. I don’t want MLP without major PPA talent, and I don’t want a small PPA Vibe league. Would the PPA even be able to keep all their major talent? I’m thinking of someone like Lea Jansen, who has said many times she greatly prefers the team format of MLP and does not like all the traveling for the many (too many) PPA events.
It appears MLP has plenty of money to throw at players and I do wonder if they may be able to snatch some talent and damage the PPA.
I have a hard time picturing MLP snagging Ben and AL for 2 reasons: They get very preferential treatment from PPA plus they don’t really like the format of MLP. I also don’t think Dylan and JW would go over because they have a valid opportunity at #1 in PPA. Tyson is another one that gets preferential treatment. But there’s more money than contract money. AL surely gets much more from her sponsors than PPA pays her. So if you become MLP, where do the sponsors come from? I don’t think the top 10 PPA men or top 5 women go over. The most frustrating thing is having to wait before we know who has whom. Also, I’d think it hurts season 2 viewership/fan support if you can’t get behind a team that you know/think won’t be around in 2024.
As MLP grows their league, I think we’ll see home and away matches in 2024 or 2025 at the latest.
This means moving to your home city or at least traveling to your home city a few days a week. Flying to away matches – 11 home – 11 away – Plus play offs – six months of the year on the road.
MLP opens up the door for all of them to win, where PPA is a Ben and ALW weekly reunion at this time.
What are the economics of this model? Flying a team of players to their Home city for part of a week to train. Flying another team of players to their Home city for part of the week to train, then flying them to an Away site for a match against that first team. Playing a 2 hour pickleball match in front of 120 fans. Broadcasting the match to 3000 YouTube viewers. How could this be profitable even if they didn’t have any salaries or prize money for the players?
Not my math, but that is their stated intentions.
They want to have home cities, facilities, etc.
Yeah that’s what they’ve said they want. But realistically that model just won’t ever work.
We’ll have to see but lots of uncertainty
It’s probably too early for this. Needs to be more money
Aren’t the PPA players under contract?
Yes they are. We address that in our recent article
I just listened to The Dink podcast with Thomas and Jimmy Miller and they had a ton of info and scuttlebutt. It sounds like MLP has successfully poached much of the PPA talent, not including Ben and AL. They are hearing MLP got Tyson and they are building around him. MLP is offering big money to players, plus 401k and health insurance. That’s all guaranteed, but then thrown in huge prize money as well. There will be a playing season, with a pretty good size off season (3+ months). I believe they did say the contracts are exclusive.
Essentially, Steve Kuhn just blew up the rest of 2023. The July MLP draft and season two, this fall, can probably be thrown in the trash. I’m glad players will be able to make a comfortable living, but as a fan who was excited about both MLP and PPA, I’m pretty bummed. MLP will be less without Ben and AL, and maybe a few others, while the PPA will just be a few of the top players and a bunch of nobodies they beat up on. I will probably be less interested in both.
As long as I get to watch MLP, and it’s a 9 month season – I’m in.
Can introduce “Cup matches” with all 24 teams involved, and the talent pool is only increasing
Yes. PPA matches are getting boring. MLP matches are crazy good. BUT! If I have to PAY to watch either… The answer is no. Get your money from the sponsors and the folks who go watch them live.
No the folks who watch the ads.
We’ll have to see what happens
Thanks for info I need to go listen.
It’s a good listen
Very good info there. We supplemented it with our recent article
If the MLP contracts are non-exclusive, I think they clearly will win this. With their ownership groups, they have the deepest pockets. The PPA tour could co-exist by running four major tournaments and a dozen minor ones. Kuhn is the one the players believe is actually on their side and looking out for them. PPA, not so much.
They are potentially exclusive but not confirmed yet
Thank you for your time and posting. And thank you, Steve Kuhn. Remember when PPA snagged almost everyone from the APP? And they did that with absolutely horrible contracts. Now MLP is offering (not sure) the players a “real” job, with all the benefits. Where PPA offered players almost nothing. IMO, AL, and BJ will have to sign w/ MLP because they will be playing against nobody. Do we really think players want to play 24 tournaments plus a year, never getting time off? So, MLP, three months off? Just like a real sport, there will be an off-season.
I’m hoping MLP becomes the standard of the sport. Including rally scoring.
…”The fractured state of pro pickleball”… Ever since PPA entered the sport, pickleball has been fractured. They have done very little to nothing for the sport and players, except where it benefits them. Your writings included, nobody has ‘basically’ ever said anything good about the PPA, for years. We’ve already seen MLP treat the players three times better than PPA. I’ve heard pros say, WOW, after some of the first MLP events.
Finally, maybe, just maybe, the sport is moving forward into becoming a “pro” sport, instead of an amateur sport which it is today. 🙂
David J you are so funny.
Laughed out loud reading your comment. No one made anyone sign with the PPA lol. It was the players choice, and they did it because it gave them the most monetary compensation.
I agree, I hope that this puts pro pickleball on a bigger stage. MLP knows how to treat players well, and it seems that a lot of players have a ton of trust in Steve Kuhn.
Multiple players were told they’d be sued by the PPA in negotiation attempts. So, yes. They did it, but they really didn’t have any other options.
It’s a lot of money
David J is the best!
Always appreciate your commentary
And they believe in Top Notch, according to the Dink podcast. As the sport’s top player’s agent, it sounds like they represent 2-3 dozen of the top players and all but one have signed with MLP. With MLP offering to buyout players PPA contracts, giving a 120 day off season, paying for insurance and travel, etc. it sounds like they’re giving players exactly what they’ve asked for. Add in the six figure guaranteed three year contracts and approximately $5 million in annual prize money and I wonder who wouldn’t go with MLP (except Ben and AL, maybe).
Yes exactly
Fleming said news on Championship Sunday.
Noted it on the new post. Thanks
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All I can say is if MLP doesn’t get rid of their crappy idea of “competition” with their freeze system, it would be better if ppa blew them out right now
I find the current MLP scoring system more exciting than the PPA system. And Teams are so much more fun to watch. And PPA gambling is a big turnoff.
The scoring is fine, the freeze which handicaps the winning team isn’t.
UMMM. Isn’t the freeze a part of the scoring system?
It’s a PACKAGE. And I like it. It makes the matches even more INTENSE.
The rally scoring is fine. Handicapping the winning team and giving an advantage for the losers to catch up is artificial and ridiculous
It makes it harder for stars to be stars in this format. An issue for signing top players. Agree that it is exciting but this is one pitfall
Disagree on this. But they may change if they have a full season rather than sporadic events
I would like to say thank you for all the nice comments, so thank you. 😉 Out of six thumbs, only one PPA Fanboy. I’m not complaining. 🙂